Welcome back to the Trauma Informed Herbalist Podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Guthrie, and today we’re going to start the discussion on the immune system and its connection to trauma. I started to notice this connection between immunity and trauma with my clients who had autoimmune issues. I work with a lot of people who have a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s, Sjogren’s disease, Lupus…

And although these diseases can have wide ranging symptoms, there is a common strain for many of my clients that they have unresolved trauma that they are struggling with on top of the illness that they have. There is a clear connection between inflammation and trauma, but inflammation is not a bad thing.

Inflammation is a natural part of our immune system, and it’s an important part of the healing process. We don’t want to stop inflammation altogether, but when inflammation gets out of control, it can be very damaging to the body. In a lot of autoimmune diseases, there is a strong correlation between the trauma that somebody has had and either an event that brings that trauma back to the surface or another stressor that adds to (it) – on top of the trauma.

And when that occurs, that tends to be when somebody’s autoimmune condition begins to flare up and they become aware that they have it. And this isn’t just my anecdotal evidence: this is beginning to be researched. There are studies that show that adverse childhood events have been linked to adult autoimmune disorders.

There is one study, I believe it was called the Marine Resilience Study, that shows that inflammation markers in Marines could help to predict who would come back with post-traumatic stress disorder after their tour of duty. So this has created a debate. Does the trauma create the inflammation? So did these Marines have, maybe, adverse childhood events that were not discussed in that study?

Or is it possible that there’s a little bit of both happening? Trauma can create inflammation because it puts you under a higher level of stress, but also if you have inflammation in your body that’s excessive, it could maybe make you more susceptible to dealing with unresolved trauma, whatever this looks like.

Inflammation is a good thing in the right amounts, but when it gets out of control and it starts damaging the body, there are all kinds of consequences. Obviously, autoimmune disease is the, probably the most clear cut example of that, but you can also have mental health issues that crop up because of the inflammation, or it could just be causing low grade pain…

It could be wearing on different body systems. There’s all kinds of ways that systemic inflammation can become an issue for someone… The good news is, is that as you work to learn how to cope with your trauma, as you work with your therapist to process through some of the, the experiences that you’ve had and kind of the cause and effect that’s occurred there, some of the stress hormones in your bodies will lower and you’ll be putting your body under less stress, and therefore your inflammation levels will lower.

And natural remedies have a lot of beneficial options to help to lower stress levels – either through some bottom up type processing, somatic type processing, or just herbs in general that can help the nervous system (which is the system we’ll talk about next).

Or even things like yoga, which can do both, right?

They can help to lower the stress levels as well as help with somatic experiencing and, and processing these things in your body. And this isn’t just theoretical, there is research that shows that yoga can actively lower inflammation markers.

From a plant medicine angle, specifically looking at herbal extracts, we have immunomodulatory herbs, and we have herbs that have anti-inflammatory properties. And Rosalee de la Forêt recently said that instead of calling them anti-inflammatory herbs, we might consider calling them inflammation modulating herbs… I think was the phrase she used… and this is because herbs that are anti-inflammatory are not killing the inflammation response because again, we don’t want to kill the inflammation response.

Instead, these herbs help to modulate the inflammation and lower it back into healthy levels. So when we use anti-inflammatory and immune modulating herbs to help to reduce the inflammation and to support the immune system throughout the entire body, this whole body healing creates a friendlier environment in which the brain easily heals from trauma (or at least more easily heals from trauma).

And again, this isn’t happening in a vacuum, so we’re doing some immune support… as well as working with our therapist… as well as finding some mindful movement that feels good, maybe even doing some nervous system herbs, which we’ll talk about in a couple of episodes. There’s all these things that work together.

And the other piece to that is: because we have so many options, if something isn’t resonating with you, or you start trying something and it doesn’t feel right, you can pivot to something else. It’s all about adjusting to find what works for you in this moment.

That doesn’t mean that if you try out a sleepy time tea one time and you just feel too spacey the next day that you’re never gonna touch that tea again, right?

That means that right now that tea is possibly exacerbating a dorsal vagal response, and so we’re gonna leave it alone for a few months while we process through some more stuff, and then we may come back later and try it again and see what happens. And of course all of you herbalists are who are listening to this are probably going, “oh, but what about this situation?”

“And what about this situation?” Yes, there are so many caveats. (For instance), sometimes an herbal tea that’s relaxing could actually cause you to be more sleepy because your body is just that desperate for rest. You know, it doesn’t necessarily mean a dorsal vagal.

So for all you “lay” people who are listening to this, if you start trying some of this stuff out, you start seeing some results.

You may want to find yourself a clinical herbalist to help you really focus in on what will help you the most, the fastest. So that’s the beauty of it. First of all, clinical herbalists usually have a lot more training in what herbs are going to be best for somebody and what might interact with other pharmaceuticals.

So they’re gonna be able to help you with safety, but then they’re also going to help you come up with a more efficient plan. So instead of having to rummage around and hope that the recommendations I heard on Elizabeth’s podcast are gonna make a difference, you’re actually working with somebody who has direct knowledge of what you’re going through.

Remember, this podcast is not supposed to be your recommendation list. This is the brainstorm so that you can start getting ideas to go figure out what works best for you.

So back to immunity. One of the reasons that I wanted to talk about this, Is because a lot of immune-based protocols are relatively safe for the majority of people, you’re not gonna have very many contraindications.

And unlike the nervine herbs where you have to kind of determine, “is this gonna work best for my constitution?” A lot of the immune, the discussion we’re having here, I should say, the immune discussion here is going to be things that almost anybody could apply and start seeing good results within a couple of months.

All right, so let’s talk immunomodulatory herbs. I found that these herbs have strong benefits for clients who are dealing with autoimmune issues after trauma, but they can also be helpful for people who are struggling with an immune response that’s lowered. So they start getting sick more frequently and more often, they’re having issues with just little sniffles and things that are occurring more frequently than we would like.

For the sake of time, I’m just going to touch on four herbs today, reishi mushrooms, green tea, stinging nettles, and elderberry. And if some of you who have a little bit of herbal knowledge kind of perked up at the idea of elderberry as an immune modulatory herb, I’ll explain that in a minute.

Reishi mushrooms are one of the immune modulatory mushrooms that are available that I have found to be helpful. Now notice not all mushrooms are gonna be as helpful as others, but there are animal studies showing the neuroprotective benefits of reishi mushrooms. Reishi has been, has become popular because so many people see it being helpful as an immune boost when it’s needed, but it also helps to reduce the immune response when it’s necessary.

So reishi is a fantastic option on that front. I worked with an herbalist for a little while who would blend it and some other mushrooms into a hot cocoa in the wintertime. It was very earthy, but it wasn’t bad. I, I really was impressed with how that flavor tasted.

The next is green tea, and of course green tea has a lot of research behind it that shows how beneficial it is.

The polyphenols have these strong anti-inflammatory effects. Just the high antioxidant levels in general of green tea are a good sign. I will say that I find green tea to be most helpful when I’m also eating the rainbow, which means adding in different colored fruits and veggies, not necessarily trying to control the amount or the types…

But just looking for maybe some carrots one day and some radishes the next, and some green bell peppers or maybe a- the green, yellow and red bell peppers in one meal. And incorporating those different colors actually brings other antioxidants in that boost the effect of green tea. Green tea also has l-theanine in it, which is an amino acid that has calming and relaxing effects.

So if you like green tea, I encourage you to be drinking a couple of cups a day. There are extracts out there, depending on the situation, the extracts might be good, but green tea in in its tea form is definitely a supportive option.

Next on our list is stinging nettle. This is another herb that’s got a lot of beneficial nutrients and shows promise as a complimentary anti-inflammatory therapy.

There’s some research being done that suggests that it might be able to help stabilize mast cells when somebody’s dealing with that. It’s possibly because it’s high in vitamin C, which has been helpful in reducing mast cell reactions. I will say for those of you who maybe are struggling with that and are going, “Ooh, this is something I should look into”, you have to be careful about the types of vitamin C you get.

Certain brands may have fillers that can actually exacerbate those situations. So don’t take me saying vitamin C has been shown to be helpful as, oh, this is a treatment…’cause it’s not – it’s not that simple. Whatever the reason it appears that nettles could be helpful in certain autoimmune situations. It could be helpful in reducing inflammation, and it’s definitely on my list of an herb that I feel like is very helpful in these scenarios.

All right, let’s tackle elderberry. Elderberry has been subjected to several unsubstantiated rumors. The most recent of which was during the start of the pandemic when people started using elderberry syrup because of, because of the antiviral properties of elderberry and elder flower. And the, the rumor came out that elderberry is an immune stimulant, which means that it causes the immune system to, to be more active.

and what we actually see in research is that it’s an immunomodulatory herb, so it’s not creating that, that stimulation response. Now, I say that and I know that there are people who have had issues with elderberry in the past, and I don’t wanna minimize your experience because I understand if you wanna stay away from it, stay away from it.

If you’ve had problems in the past with it, then you don’t have to go back to it. But when I’ve had clients decide they want to try it, what I recommend is making the elderberry syrup yourself so you know where the elderberries come from. You know the exact ingredients that are in your syrup, and if you wanna do a tincture or something, that’s fine too, but if you make it yourself, you don’t have to wonder if what you’ve bought has added ingredients that might be what’s triggering that immune response.

Most clinical herbalists that have a lot of experience in the field will tell you that what we see matches the research. It’s immune modulatory. It has high levels of antioxidants that can make it a fantastic support. As matter of fact, elderberry with green tea and a couple of other herbs can make an amazing tasty beverage.

So if you wanna try it, just make sure you’re getting it from a reputable source. And know that I have found it and elder flower (which comes from the same plant) to be very, very helpful.

So reishi, green tea, stinging nettle, and elderberry. Those are four immune modulatory herbs. This is the tip of the iceberg.

Remember I told you before, we’re not digging as deep into these things as I would like, just based off of how much time we have and how long I really feel like this season needs to be. But hopefully this has given you a starting point where you can now go and take some of this information, research it a little further, find some things that interest you, find other immune modulatory herbs that look like they would be helpful for you, and start your journey to supporting your immune system.

So remember in the context of trauma, this doesn’t necessarily change the direct processing that you need to be doing with your therapist, but reducing inflammation levels by helping to modulate the immune response could help to reduce some of the symptoms that are making it harder for you to go through the processing and start the healing.

The better that we feel, the less energy we have to spend on managing our symptoms and pushing through pain and things like that. And the more energy that we have to focus on building new habits that will help us to heal or remembering to do that thing that our therapist told us to do at the last session, or reading more information that could help us, or just getting out and connecting with friends and family.

So the other type of herbs that I wanted to discuss today are anti-inflammatory herbs. Now, recognize that many immune modulatory herbs are also anti-inflammatory. And as Rosalie has said, it’s not that we’re trying to stop all the inflammation, it’s more of a inflammation modulation. Um, now I feel like there’s a, like a schoolhouse rock type song that we could create with that, like *sings to the tune of malfunction junction* “inflammation modulation”.

Okay. I’m sorry. Back to what we’re discussing here before Herbs that I would like to discuss from an anti-inflammatory angle are turmeric, garlic, cinnamon, and boswellia, which is where frankincense comes from.

So starting with turmeric, most people know that turmeric is considered very highly anti-inflammatory.

People love it. We do wanna be careful with it, especially if it’s a curcumin extract. Curcuminoids are the polyphenol compounds that are in turmeric. That creates some of the most anti-inflammatory benefits. But what we have seen is that if you have too strong of an extract and you’re taking too much of it, it can actually be really hard on your liver.

So one time I met a cardiologist and the first thing she wanted to talk about when she found out what I did was how many of her older patients come in and they’re taking turmeric… and it’s messing with their liver function. And usually what was happening was people were taking more (extract) than they should be taking.

So just be aware that just because things are natural does not mean that we can binge on them. We do still need to be appropriate and safe with what we’re doing, but for most normal, healthy people who do not have liver function concerns, taking turmeric can help to reduce the inflammation response in the body.

One of the ways we could make turmeric even more effective is to make sure that we’re taking it with black pepper, because black pepper helps it to absorb into the body.

The second herb, garlic, is also fantastically anti-inflammatory. It supports lung function. And matter of fact, when you, you know how you eat garlic and it excretes back out through your lungs?

You can smell it on your breath for quite a while afterwards? That’s some of those active ingredients coming back out through your lungs, and so it’s a fantastic option for a lot of people who are looking for a more nutritive approach. Turmeric and garlic, both can be used in a lot of different meals, and so you can actually add them in when you’re cooking and get them that way.

Another nutritive herb, cinnamon, shows neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory effects. And also when you combine that with its effects on blood sugar makes it a fantastic option for general overall. If somebody’s very stressed, it can be a very good thing to add in. So remember the elderberry and green tea tea I was talking about earlier?

Sometimes I’ll slap some cinnamon in. When I make my elderberry syrup, I make it with elder flowers, rose hips, elderberry, and cinnamon.

We’re running short on time, so I just really quickly want to touch on boswellia. A lot of people think that boswellia resin is fantastic. It’s, it’s the extract where we get frankincense, and I agree it is a wonderful anti-inflammatory, but it is over harvested.

So if you find frankincense or boswellia on a list of anti-inflammatory herbs, try the other herbs first and try to only use boswellia as a last resort. It has really good benefits, but it’s been over harvested. It’s not endangered yet, but it’s on the verge of becoming threatened. So just use it responsibly only when you absolutely have to have it.

So again, those four herbs are turmeric, garlic, and cinnamon, which I definitely recommend those three- and boswellia should only be used if absolutely necessary because it is in a position where it could easily become threatened or endangered, and we want to have it for generations to come.

I thank you for joining me this time.

I will say next time -this is part one of the Autoimmune Connection – Next time I’m specifically talking on nutrition, and we’re going to touch on diets. So if you have an eating disorder and you don’t feel comfortable listening or you have other triggers around food when it comes to your trauma and you wanna skip this episode, I’ve specifically put it all into that episode so that you can skip it and move forward to the next.

Thank you again for listening. If you have questions at any point, you can shoot me a message, Elizabeth@empathiccoaches.com. You can follow me on Instagram at trauma informed herbalist, and I do encourage you to look at my website. If you go to www.traumainformedherbalist.com, you’ll be able to see the information about the trauma informed herbalist book.

Thanks again for listening, and I’ll catch you next time.